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Dec. 3rd, 2003 | 01:38 am
mood: sleepysleepy

I went to see a talk by Vandana Shiva on "Real Wealth, Real Poverty: How economic globalization is robbing the poor of their wealth."

Very interesting. basically she argued that globalization takes systems that were successfully supporting people for generations and destroys them. It promises more money, but in the process depletes the natural capital to the point where there isn't enough resources to support life. (Trapping people in the monetary economy, after stripping them of the unpaid jobs that previously supported them).

I went with the activist. During the time we spent together I got into two discussions with her. One was trying to get her to understand the perspective of meat eaters, and that although eating meat has a number of issues attached to it telling them they're wrong isn't going to accomplish much. I tried pointing out how a number of people I know tried being vegetarian and felt really unhealthy afterward. And although I to believe that a vegetarian diet can be nutritionally complete, it's really hard to argue against someone's personal experience

Later I tried arguing that having a space program is a reasonable thing to be doing even when there are people suffering

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Comments {7}

secretslip

(no subject)

from: secretslip
date: Dec. 3rd, 2003 09:43 am (UTC)
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1. I see what you're saying about globalization. How do you feel about big book stores taking over thing? Or is that unrelated? Can you give me more examples of globalization?

2. Meat eaters (like me) who have tried and failed at vegetarianism are lazy. I didn't want to make food a big part of my life, I didn't want to have to plan meals and count vitamins and shit like that. That's why it didn't work for me. I couldn't be bothered to put the effort in to make it work. You should start a vegetarian co-op in Kerckoff (or at Caltech in general) where once a week you make a big vegetarian meal and bring it to school in a big pot.

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Diane Trout

(no subject)

from: alienghic
date: Dec. 3rd, 2003 06:02 pm (UTC)
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I'm not fond of the big bookstores crushing alternative bookstores. One of my friends told me how at one point she was working at a lesbian/feminist store. Once borders decided to carry the lesbian detective novel series that was the store's "bread and butter" they shortly went out of business.

Of course shortly there after borders stopped carrying those books, and now they're only being sold on-line. (Which means that that group of people lost a space to for a community around).

Meat eaters (like me) who have tried and failed at vegetarianism are lazy</>

Hmm... Jessica was arguing for that, and I tried to counter that jumping from meat eating to being vegetarianism was too large of a cultural shift for most people to make in one go.

But it sounds like you've supported her position.

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secretslip

(no subject)

from: secretslip
date: Dec. 3rd, 2003 06:34 pm (UTC)
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I'm down with the vizzos. But I'm not a leader. You or Jessica have to start it. Shift my culture baby.

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antiopa

Book Rec

from: antiopa
date: Dec. 3rd, 2003 10:17 am (UTC)
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Since you seem to talk to her more often than I do, you may want to pass on a book recommendation for me. She might have read it already, actually, but here it is:

Living Among Meat Eaters: The Vegetarian's Survival Handbook

I've only read the first couple of chapters, but it's quite interesting. It talks about dealing with non-vegetarians in a way that is not confrontational, despite the fact that vegetarians and omnivores/carnivores are really looking at meat from completely different paradigms. (I.e., vegetarians equate meat with Death, whereas non-vegetarians equate meat with Life.)

I'm a vegetarian and K is not, but since I'm a vegetarian for health rather than ethical reasons, I tend not to care what other people eat or don't eat.

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Diane Trout

Re: Book Rec

from: alienghic
date: Dec. 3rd, 2003 06:04 pm (UTC)
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Hmmm... interesting author, I'd like to see the sexual politics of meat as well.

I went vegetarian for environmental reasons, though as time as progressed I also agree with the two main other reasons. (Health benefits, and animal cruelty).

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(no subject)

from: musicwomyn
date: Dec. 3rd, 2003 11:22 am (UTC)
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I have a hard time understanding why people eat meat, too. I have stopped trying to pursuade people, however, because it is pointless. If I am asked why (and I often am) that's my opportunity to educate. Several people have changed their diets slightly as a result (taking red meat out).

The problem with why people get sick on veggie diets, I think, is the overconsumption of carbs leading to an imbalance in other important areas (vitamin B and iron).

As for the space thing while people are suffering. I think that is comparing apples and oranges. There is money out there for poeple who are suffering. it's just being hoarded by a small percentage of people. I don't think people suffering is affected by the space program in any way (or a very small way)

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Diane Trout

(no subject)

from: alienghic
date: Dec. 4th, 2003 12:16 pm (UTC)
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This woman is still rather idealistic and is sufficiently committed that she doesn't mind going into direct conflict with people. What we were talking about was she didn't want to pass butter to someone at a table. That seems a bit rude to me, on the other hand she seems much better at getting things accomplished.

I was trying to argue that the people who are suffering don't even necessarily need money, they just need functional ecosystems. As long as we dismantle the opressive trade systems like the IMF, World bank, and WTO and let them rebuild their countries things will probably work out.

I did miss the chance to talk about solar power satellites... For a few hundred billion we could have a space elevator and a sequence of satellites beaming clean power down from space 24/7.

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